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Sniper 6:13 Tue Jul 13
The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Some may remember me posting about this previously. We had a patio fitted by a landscaping company. Long story short, it’s porcelain slabs, fitted ‘butt jointed’ with no room for grout. This is against manufacturers instructions and general national guidelines. The foot or so high retaining wall they built also started to come apart after a couple of months and one step that goes into the lawn is sinking as the base below seems to be some kind of crumbly sand.
We questioned about the laying of the patio and they said it was done that way ‘because we (or more, my wife) told them to’. Not only is this untrue, I can think of at least 7 conversations with them around grout colour, the advantages of grout, how are old slabs were too close and whether we wanted the edges grouted to match the slabs or mortar to match the wall
We had an independent inspection done and I followed guidance on sending them letters, one advising that all the works need doing again and then another advising if I didn’t hear back within 7 days then we would get another builder to rectify and invoice for the difference.
So far we haven’t paid a penny
However, they replied to the second letter although it was weeks after the deadline date had lapsed, saying they would come to ‘correct the snags’. There are no snags just faulty workmanship all round. Before replying to this though, we then had issues with our boiler which started because they concreted over a pipe and filter that we repeatedly advised them required annual access for servicing, broke the filter and caused an oil leak which got air into the system causing it to completely fail all through the winter. I emailed back to advise we had further issues from their work and would respond in due course.
We had to have the drive dug up and fence panels removed to correct it and when the boiler manufacturers came to look at it, they advised it now fails install instructions as the patio is too near the front of the boiler and the warranty is void
So I’m now getting quotes for moving the boiler to rectify this before sending a final letter
Today we had a letter from their accountant (who we’ve never heard of or had contact with before, and not on letter headed paper although a Google search shows he is an actual accountant) asking us to respond to him by 20th July or they will take legal action.
So…
First up, I’m assuming I should reply to the landscapers, acknowledging the accountant letter but not make contact with the accountant who is an unknown, unqualified third party
Second, they missed two clear deadlines to respond initially so have they missed their chance to rectify the works and get anything done for any money?
Third, can I just go ahead and employ another contractor to do the works correctly? It will leave us significantly out of pocket but at least it will be done (and I don’t think I have the energy to take them to small claims - plus the wife of the landscaper has been abusive to my wife face to face and I’d rather put the matter to bed completely)
Thanks in advance for any help - every time I think I know how to proceed correctly something else crops up to muddy the waters.
And if you’re asking what this has to do with West Ham, well I’m a hammer (swt)
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
SecondOpinion
6:56 Tue Aug 3
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Just an update on my patio. (WHO always welcomes good news)
After two years of living with a dirty patio that was impossible to clean even after using all sorts of (very expensive) solvents and acids, I finally found a product that actually worked.
The tiles (64 of them) are as clean as the day they were delivered and now the patio is grouted (properly) I have finally got what I paid for.
The product I used was a simple household impregnated sponge you can buy from any supermarket, although I found a similar cheaper version on Ebay.
Hope your patio has a happy outcome as well Sniper
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Tomshardware
10:00 Tue Aug 3
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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I wouldn't trust them coming back to do anything.
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Russ of the BML
11:14 Sun Aug 1
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Sniper:
STEADY has it bang on. You haven't paid anything and that is where you have a major power base. Do not pay them anything.
My choice would be to cut tears completely. Because if they come back and do it and you pay them it sounds like you will have problems anyway and have to get them back. But by then you would've paid.
I would write to accountant. Tell them they missed deadlines. End of. You are moving on. If they want their money they need to take you to court where you will provide all evidence of the shambles.
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Mike Oxsaw
11:10 Sun Aug 1
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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If the same people that fucked it up in the first place are coming back, the very least I'd want is a non-local independent assessor to monitor their work and report back to you on what they see.
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Pentonville
11:00 Sun Aug 1
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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My question was more implying that if the blokes showing up own the company and its them out of pocket, isn't it likely to go off massively when they show up and want their money?
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Sniper
11:15 Sat Jul 31
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Cheers always
Trades people, generally, do my nut!
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Alwaysaniron
8:32 Sat Jul 31
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Sniper; you’re requesting legal advice again from WHO! I know we’ve given our ‘best’ efforts at advice but I’ve a sneaking feeling this is going to be a protracted case that could cost a huge sum to put right let alone the potent legal fees. Before you do anything I’d seek ‘professional’ legal advice from a reputable law firm specialising in these cases. If this goes tits up you could be left with a massive debt.
I still think you’ve a great case but then again I’m not a lawyer!
Spend a few hundred quid as it could save you thousands.
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Sniper
6:30 Sat Jul 31
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Well they want to send out the same people who did it wrong in the first place
I have quotes from other companies to do it properly and as they are refusing to correct all their mistakes having been given plenty of opportunity and letters, and Letters Before Action, I’m assuming I can now just go ahead with alternative contractors to correct it
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Pentonville
9:55 Fri Jul 30
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Are the blokes that are coming employees of the company who have messed you about or is it their company?
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Sniper
5:57 Fri Jul 30
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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The update you’ve all been waiting for
So, sent the landscapers a final letter detailing all the problems with the work, and sent a copy to the accountant (making it clear this was out of courtesy - first thing none of my mates pointed out was that it’s something of a DPA breach that my details were given to him in the first place given that he’s not a lawyer)
I’ve now had a reply to state that they will come on a particular date (stated by them) and fix what they are calling ‘snags’ in the work (ie. issues with the drainage and crumbling walls) and will expect full payment on the day, but ignoring some of the issues raised and completely ignoring anything to do with the relaying of the slabs (which is the main
Problem and also means that, even if we had to allow them to fix the wall etc, this would have to be done again after the patio is removed and relayed as this will doubtless cause damage to it)
I’m assuming I can now just say no to them and get someone else to do the work?
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Sniper
10:53 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Thanks otb
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On The Ball
2:30 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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I think I'd copy them both in to any letter - you don't want to be accused of anything. It can't do any harm, however pointless it may be.
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Sniper
1:03 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Thanks all
You can’t really open up the slabs with an angle grinder - it’ll damage the slabs as they are porcelain and a pain to cut and fixed in place using a slurry bond
I’m going to write to them again but am wondering whether to ignore the accountant an just go direct to the company. I do see the relevance of the accountant at all.
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Alwaysaniron
12:20 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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I think the claim should come under the SCC remit (up to £10k) however if you want to counter claim to have all of the work re-done and the cost of driveway and boiler repairs then its likely to exceed this amount.
As other have said; DONT PAY A PENNY but respond letting them know that they have yet to reply to your requests on 2 occasions.
If you can afford it; seek you're own legal advice too. WHO lawyers.com isn't the most recommended route to take in matters like this and a reasonable lawyer would probably not ask you for a link to your wife!
Im no lawer so will accept the link!
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martyboy
12:00 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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You may not need to remove the whole patio slabs, why not get someone clued up use and angle grinder on the joints to "open up" the said joints? Then just grout them in? As for the step coming loose, remove the base, and re concrete on a nice moist base. And DO NOT pay them, unless ordered through a court to.
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Joe C
11:50 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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CrowleyHammer 11:39 Wed Jul 14
You sound like you’re speaking from experience. Got something to tell us?
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CrowleyHammer
11:39 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero 2:07 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
Are the builders reluctant to rectify the fault because they've left a dead body under there, Corrie/Brookie-style?
It can happen...
Surely if you were going to do that it would be the best patio you have ever seen with no issues that might cause it to be dug up in the near future? and if there were issues you'd be round like a shot to sort it out yourself!
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Alfs
4:32 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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If you've paid no money so far, they will have to sue you, risking thousands of pounds for a case which they will lose.
They won't do that.
However, if you've hired a firm of Pikeys firstly you're an idiot and secondly, you need to consider whether they are the type of people who will pour petrol through your letterbox at 3 am.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
2:07 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Are the builders reluctant to rectify the fault because they've left a dead body under there, Corrie/Brookie-style?
It can happen...
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White Pony
2:03 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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It’s not really a piece of piss at all, otherwise everyone would do it themselves.
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Charoo
1:59 Wed Jul 14
Re: The saga of my patio - any advice welcome
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Stop being a lazy cunt and do the work yourself. Laying a patio is a piece of piss, I’m useless at diy and even I can do it.
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